Review
Pop Culture Happy Hour
Review
Pop Culture Happy Hour
[THEME MUSIC]
AISHA HARRIS: Aside from great performances, you never quite know what you're going to get with a new Paul Thomas Anderson movie. Sometimes it's a twisted romance or a loose coming-of-age tale or even a sprawling epic with biblical implications. His latest feature is One Battle After Another, and this time, he's in action thriller mode. Once again, he's in fine form.
GLEN WELDON: Somehow, this is Anderson's first time working with Leonardo DiCaprio, who's playing a stoned-out dad searching for his missing daughter. The character does not have a very particular set of skills, but he does have a history of raging against the machine. And in this case, the machine is unabashedly racist, xenophobic, and corrupt. I'm Glen Weldon.
HARRIS: And I'm Aisha Harris. And today we're talking about One Battle After Another on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. Joining us today is freelance film critic and programmer Monica Castillo. Welcome back, Monica.
MONICA CASTILLO: So glad to be back for this one.
HARRIS: Lovely to have you. So One Battle After Another stars Leonardo DiCaprio as Bob, a washed-up ex-revolutionary living quietly with his teen daughter, Willa. She's played by Chase Infiniti. One day, his past comes back to haunt him. Colonel Lockjaw-- that is his actual name. He is the officer who effectively dismantled Bob's crew of militant activist sons 16 years earlier. And he's tracked him down, and he's after Willa now. He's played by a very colorful and very sinister Sean Penn. Bob seeks help from what's left of his old group, the French 75. He's also aided by Willa's karate instructor, Sergio, played by Benicio del Toro. And the ensemble also includes Teyana Taylor as Perfidia Beverly Hills. Again, these names-- chef's kiss. She's playing Bob's love and Willa's mom. One Battle After Another is in theaters now. And Glen, I'm going to start with you. How did we feel about One Battle After Another?
WELDON: Uh, we loved it. I mean, this movie is really clear-eyed and immediate and urgent. And it's ridiculing an ideology that is, as they say, in the news right now, which is white supremacy. And I'm not particularly proud of this, but I know that if this movie had been made even as recently as last year, if it had come out then-- I know me-- I'd be sitting here on bloviating about fictional villains. I'd be like, I don't know, guys. You make your villain a white supremacist? That's like making your villain kill puppies or club baby seals. It's so cartoonishly evil. It's so unbelievably evil. It's like you don't have to put in the work as a filmmaker to make a layered characterization because you can count on the fact that literally everyone in your audience is going to agree that they're horrible people.
HARRIS: Yeah.
WELDON: That's why, frankly, back when the ending of Breaking Bad came out, I was-- it didn't hit as hard as it could have because it's all about-- the show is all about a moral gray area, a good man becoming a monster. But then at the very end, they go, oh, you know what's worse than a monster is? Literal Nazis.
HARRIS: Yeah.
WELDON: We can all agree.
HARRIS: Literal Nazis.
WELDON: Literal Nazis.
HARRIS: [LAUGHS]
WELDON: It felt like a cop-out. This doesn't because white supremacy isn't a radical fringe notion. It's back in the public square. It's public policy. And that's ridiculous. And that needs to get called out and ridiculed. And that's what this movie is doing. And not for nothing, having a great time doing it. I mean, given the subject matter, this should really come off as kind of strident and polemical, but it really doesn't. It's fun in every way that Eddington isn't.
[LAUGHTER]
WELDON: I had a great time at this.
HARRIS: Yeah, Sean Penn is sort of the locus for this racist, xenophobic-- all of these things.
WELDON: Yeah, he's the face.
HARRIS: He is hamming it up. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way. He seems to be having maybe too good of a time playing this character.
CASTILLO: He's been waiting his whole life to play this kind of villain.
WELDON: Yeah.
HARRIS: Yeah.
CASTILLO: He's so good at it. It's so scary. I didn't recognize him at first. And then I realized who it was. And I'm like--
HARRIS: Yeah, neither did I.
CASTILLO: --oh God. Oh my God. I also really loved it. I was super on board with it.
HARRIS: Yeah.
CASTILLO: You know, I think we sometimes-- we take Paul Thomas Anderson for granted because of course he's such a great filmmaker. Of course he's going to give us something good. And then we come to this movie, and not only does he push himself and really try different things, both visually and narratively, it just feels like everything works together so precisely. Very entertaining. Completely riveted. I can't believe that he just, like, grabbed on to that third rail of, like, let's talk about politics right now, and made an exciting thriller out of it.
HARRIS: Yeah.
CASTILLO: I mean, one of the best sequences in this movie is a car chase that I really want to single out. I got to see this in IMAX. And I felt like I'd never seen a car chase that good before.
HARRIS: Yeah, yeah.
CASTILLO: I mean, it was eye-poppingly beautiful. So shout out to Anderson and his cinematographer, Michael Bauman, who he worked with on Licorice Pizza. So they're back together again. And it is just incredible, just so awe-inspiring. I also went back and visited some of Anderson's previous works and getting to see, like, little threads of things throughout his career that he's bringing back for One Battle After Another.
HARRIS: Yeah.
CASTILLO: There's a beautiful-- it's just a little scene of just, like, a camera on top of a car door that's being closed at the same time, but it just feels so exciting.
HARRIS: Yeah.
CASTILLO: And it's borrowed from Punch-Drunk Love. You know, the kinds of painterly compositions that he uses for The Master is also here on display. He's just so good at what he does. And he comes out swinging. I mean, it is a masterclass, firing on all cylinders. I can't say enough great things about this movie. I think we're going to be talking about this one for a while.
HARRIS: Yeah. I love that you talked about the car chase scene because it really is. I mean, there's not really any-- you can't really give away a car chase scene. But, like, I do find it fascinating that it takes place in the desert, and it's the hilliest desert I have ever seen. And I've driven through a lot of desert. A lot of it is flat. Or if you're driving through it, it's very slow ascent.
CASTILLO: Mm-hmm.
HARRIS: It kind of felt like French Connection, but in the desert, because it was just, like, so many hills.
WELDON: [LAUGHS]
HARRIS: I was like, what is happening here?
CASTILLO: Oh, yeah.
HARRIS: But it's so well-paced and so well-choreographed. This movie comes in at almost three hours, and I did not feel those almost three hours.
CASTILLO: Mm-mm. Not at all.
WELDON: Absolutely.
HARRIS: I agree with so much of what you both have said. I have a couple of small nits, and they keep this from being a great movie for me from a very good. But I think that Leonardo DiCaprio, we've kind of seen him play a sort of character like this in, like, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I feel, at least in the second half of this movie, you know, when he is very just kind of checked out and washed-up, as we've said. But it's fun. It's funny. There's a whole sequence where he is trying to charge his phone, while also trying to remember a code that he got 16 years earlier [LAUGHS] to identify himself in order to get help from the French 75.
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]
SPEAKER: What time is it?
BOB: Uh, you know, I don't-- I don't-- I don't remember that part. Or let's just not nitpick over the password stuff. Look, this is Bob Ferguson, all right? You just called my house. Let's-- let's cut the-- I need the rendezvous point.
SPEAKER: What time is it?
[END PLAYBACK]
HARRIS: This sequence goes on for a very long time, but it is great.
CASTILLO: It's so well-sustained.
HARRIS: And you have Benicio del Toro playing with it and just being cool. That's what Benicio del Toro is really good at.
CASTILLO: Yes.
HARRIS: I just found this really, really fun. I do want to kind of talk about the way this movie does incorporate the more topical and very "of the moment" issues because at the center and what I think most of Anderson's focus is on, like this relationship between Willa and Bob, father and daughter, and then, of course, Colonel Lockjaw, and this kind of triangular thing. But then it opens with the French 75, this radical group, infiltrating and freeing detained immigrants. And we see that happen again later on. We see what's happening in the way that people have to feel like they're forced into hiding. This movie has a lot of tunnels and a lot of, like, walking to places, both sinister but also liberating. I kind of want to pull a little bit more on that and how you feel Anderson weaves those in and sometimes takes a back seat, I think. And I wonder how that worked for you. I'm curious.
WELDON: Well, what occurred to me is that this movie's understanding of counterculture radicalism is more layered than it appears on the surface because DiCaprio is so-- he's doing so much that he kind of steals focus.
CASTILLO: Yeah.
WELDON: But if you grew up anytime after the '60s, your understanding of what the '60s counterculture was, was, if you think about it, it was dictated entirely to you by the culture that the counterculture was trying to counter, right? So history is written by the winners. And '60s radicals and revolutionaries have been portrayed in mainstream culture forever as hippies, burnouts, losers, you know, dismissible. So DiCaprio represents that archetype. Now, it's not '60s radical culture here. It's--
HARRIS: More contemporary.
WELDON: Yeah.
HARRIS: Yeah, yeah.
WELDON: But his character is a loser, even when his group experiences a win, as it does in those opening scenes you mentioned. He's still nervous. He's needy. He's a raw nerve. That's my favorite Dicaprio. You mentioned Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. We also see a bit of it in Wolf of Wall Street, when he's feckless, he's insecure.
HARRIS: Yeah.
WELDON: You tell me if you think this is a stretch. I think he's the audience surrogate.
HARRIS: Oh, yeah.
WELDON: When we catch up to him 16 years later, he's grown complacent with weed and booze and TV and watching the Battle of Algiers. And the film's world is very specific. It doesn't seem to be at first, but it is because the world he worked to prevent has come to pass. And it literally has. In the world of the movie-- which is maybe the most Pynchon-esque little filigree bit that's kind of staying in the film, because it's a very loose adaptation of the Thomas Pynchon novel Vineland-- because it's not white supremacy writ-large as a cultural reality, there is this very specific white supremacist secret society. It's strongly implied that it actually runs the damn country. And so, you know, that's when you kind of recalibrate the Leo DiCaprio character because he's not paranoid, because people are actually out to get him.
HARRIS: Yeah.
WELDON: So he's not paranoid, he's just perceptive. And I think if people think of that secret society as a cop-out, which I would have even a year ago, I mean, in drama, in fiction, you need to particularize and localize what you're fighting against. 250 years of systemic oppression needs a face, right? A face you can punch.
HARRIS: Yeah.
WELDON: And this film-- smartly, in the end, I think-- this film is filled with very punchable faces that I wanted to see punched.
HARRIS: Yes, including Tony Goldwyn, a.k.a. Fitz from Scandal. [LAUGHS]
CASTILLO: Oh, yes. Surprise, surprise.
WELDON: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CASTILLO: I also can relate to, you know, the need or, like, this sort of, like, malaise that sets in after so many years of trying to fight the power. It gets really exhausting. And maybe you just want to live life. Maybe that's all you have the bandwidth for. You know, there's been so much conversation over the past few years since, you know, the Black Lives Matter movement and different things like that. How do you sustain a cultural momentum like that in these kinds of movements, in these grassroots organizing? And what happens next? Is this a lifelong thing? Or, like, how do you make it a lifelong thing without necessarily burning out? Because burning out is a real reality for a lot of folks, and especially for as much activism as, like, Leonardo DiCaprio's character takes on. He's, you know, really involved with this countercultural group. And then all of a sudden, you know, he tries to, you know, go back to life as a civilian, and it turns out that you can't always go back.
WELDON: Yeah.
CASTILLO: So that's a very, you know, real discussion and reality that, you know, happens in countries the world over, let alone, you know, what might happen here.
HARRIS: Yeah.
CASTILLO: It was an interesting sort of tension there to see, like, yeah, you can tap into the movement, but you can't necessarily always quit it.
WELDON: Right.
HARRIS: Let me lay all my cards out on the table, which is that the more I've mulled over on this, the more I've come around to this is very, very good. I want to watch this movie again.
CASTILLO: Same.
HARRIS: I think to your point, Glen, about how it really kind of captures what it means, like, when the revolution is no longer sexy, like, it's sexy until it's not, you know, eventually, most, if not all, revolutionaries find themselves, in their older age, whether it's actually the system breaking them down or just getting older, maybe getting a bit more conservative. Things just change. And I love that aspect of this film and how seriously it takes it. I think for me, where I was wanting something a little bit different-- and it's always a gamble to argue that a movie should have been this when it's not, because it's like, you have to judge what's on the screen. But I do think the movie does give me something that I wanted more of. And that is, you know, this idea of Teyana Taylor's character, Perfidia, and what exactly her motivations are, beyond being a Black woman.
WELDON: Yeah.
HARRIS: That's not his focus. And I wonder, is it because Leo is a bigger name and is a white man and he just understands it more? Like, the whole white supremacy stuff, I was totally on board with. I wanted Perfidia-- that part of it felt a little surface-level for me because it kind of rushes by really, really quickly in the first, you know, act of this movie because we're in the past, and we're seeing them before they've had their daughter. And she's such a fascinating character because she is kind of, like, a Pam Grier in the '70s. Like, she is depicted as, like, this revolutionary, like, Black power figure, but then she's using her sexuality and actually, like, gets off, to some extent, on, like, wielding a gun and on having this sort of power. And there's even a moment where they're robbing a bank, and Junglepussy, who is the rapper who plays a character named Junglepussy in this movie, and she's part of the French 75, at one point, she says, like, I am what Black power looks like. And I was like, [SIGHS] OK. [LAUGHS]
WELDON: Yeah.
HARRIS: I guess what I wanted more of was like a little bit more of an understanding of what that revolution is for those Black characters because it does mean something, the fact that we know that they are the ones leading this. And people like Leo are just kind of along for the ride. And--
WELDON: Exactly.
HARRIS: --Alana Haim also shows up very briefly, like, kind of blink if you miss it, as part of the group. But the Black and Brown people are leading this charge. And I kind of wanted a little bit more of that before we turn into focusing on, on the Leo character. And I think that's kind of where I-- and also, like, Regina Hall is in this movie.
CASTILLO: I was going to say--
HARRIS: She is completely underused.
CASTILLO: Yeah.
WELDON: OK. This is not an excuse, but here's what I think was happening--
HARRIS: Yeah.
WELDON: --in PTA's mind. He wants to say, I need to represent the culturally common idea of a revolutionary. That's DiCaprio. He also wants to acknowledge that he is not the whole story.
HARRIS: Right.
WELDON: We see in this movie that revolution, or at least resistance, is a noble thing, and that revolutionaries can also be competent. And you want to get behind them. And, yes, if they take the form of Teyana Taylor, they can be sexy. I agree, that's pretty much all she is in this movie. That's her characterization. But in the same way, if it takes the form of Benicio del Toro, a revolution can be chill as hell. And I would argue that chill as hell is also pretty much the extent of his-- that's who he is. But you know, he's effective. I mean, there's a lot of really compelling images in this film, including that chase scene you guys talked about. But the one that I'm going to be kept with is the silhouettes of these kids leaping across rooftops--
HARRIS: Mm, yeah.
WELDON: --joyful, purposeful, gorgeous. And then I think what he's trying to say-- and I don't think he's doing it in a particularly layered way, but he's saying, that's the resistance.
HARRIS: Yeah.
WELDON: And then we see DiCaprio huffing and puffing behind them. And then it's like, he's like, that's us.
HARRIS: Yeah.
WELDON: Right?
HARRIS: [LAUGHS]
WELDON: Which is why--
HARRIS: Yes.
WELDON: --I think--
CASTILLO: Yeah.
WELDON: --the film wants to be a call to action, but not a humorless or didactic one--
CASTILLO: Yeah.
WELDON: --but a fun one. It is a mainstream movie that has subversiveness at its center. It's not a deep subversiveness, but it's there. And all that's really saying is, get off the couch, look around, and help each other. And I bought it.
CASTILLO: Yeah. I really dug the fact that you have so many different examples of what a revolutionary leader looks like, whether that's more the showstopper, more the person who gets off on control, like Perfidia, or like Deandra, which is Regina Hall's character. Like, she's way more in control than, I think--
WELDON: Yeah.
CASTILLO: --almost anyone else in the movie--
HARRIS: Yeah.
CASTILLO: --up until a certain point. And she's kind of running, you know, a good portion of that movie. I enjoyed that. And same thing with Benicio del Toro. Like, even though he has this very cool, reflective surface, like nothing's going to trouble him, he's overseeing, you know, a huge operation. And, you know, while Leo's character, Bob, is freaking out and, like, throwing himself on the floor to not be seen by the cops--
HARRIS: Yeah.
CASTILLO: --Benicio is, like, just slowly and purposefully packing his stuff, getting ready to go on to the next mission.
HARRIS: Yeah.
CASTILLO: So you have all different kinds of responses to this moment of action, a moment of crisis.
HARRIS: Absolutely. I think all of those points, I agree with them, and I think they're so important to point out. I have to say, like, this is, again-- this is a me sort of critique. I think also, I'm just looking at it from the sense of, like, the history of Black people on film and Black women specifically on film and how you are kind of, like, playing with fire here to have a Black woman character who is so sexualized, in a way--
CASTILLO: Sure.
HARRIS: --and in a violent way. And I'm not saying he doesn't necessarily pull it off, but I do think that I wanted a little bit more complications with that.
WELDON: Yeah.
HARRIS: And also, again, this movie is almost three hours long. I'm not sure what I would cut to make more room for that.
WELDON: Yeah.
HARRIS: I will say, while I felt I wanted a little bit more from Teyana Taylor's character and Regina Hall's character, we do get to spend a good amount of time with Willa, Bob and Perfidia's daughter, who's played by Chase Infiniti, who was actually new to me.
CASTILLO: Yeah, also new to me. I think she does an astounding job with the complexity of the role. At first you get to meet her, she's, like, this naughty 16-year-old who doesn't, like, trust her dad or just, like, eyerolls whenever he's freaking out about something. And also, kind of--
HARRIS: To be fair, Bob is a little, like, no phones. [LAUGHS]
CASTILLO: Not world's best dad.
HARRIS: Yeah.
CASTILLO: She is actually kind of looking out for him--
HARRIS: Yeah.
CASTILLO: --at that beginning set and then is trying to, you know, get him to wake up, essentially. And then she is kind of, like, coming into her own at this moment in this, again, moment of crisis and has to kind of reckon with her family's past, her own, you know, role in this, and what she-- what is she going to do? Is she going to run away? Is she going to stand and fight? There's a big, you know, question for her to answer. And I mean, she throws her all into it. I mean, she's really great and such a great scene partner for Leo as well.
HARRIS: Yeah. She is a very convincing 16-year-old who is both sheltered, but also is like, whatever, Dad, I'm doing what I need to do to--
CASTILLO: Yeah.
HARRIS: --try and feel as normal as possible. I think overall, like, this is such a-- [SIGHS] I don't know. Paul Thomas Anderson, for me, has never made a bad movie. You know, this is his 10th feature. He's just one of our most consistent working directors today. I'm just very happy that he even decided that, like, I want to at least try to address something that is happening now, something that's been happening for a very long time. But yeah, it's a fun time. I think people are going to have thoughts about it. You should definitely tell us what you think about One Battle After Another because there is so much to talk about, so much to chew on. I'm going to see it again. And who knows? I might see it again and change my mind completely on how I feel about this. But find us on Facebook at facebook.com/pchh and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/nprpopculture. We'll have a link to that in our episode description. And up next, what's making us happy this week.
HARRIS: Hey, y'all. Before we get back to the show, yes, you, you with impeccable taste in podcasts, if Pop Culture Happy Hour has ever helped you win a group chat debate, find a hit series before everyone else, or pretend you saw that movie you definitely didn't, do us a solid, and leave the show a review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps more people find us and helps us make the show even better for you. And now, it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week, what's making us happy. Monica, let us know.
CASTILLO: So this past Saturday, Amazon hosted a livestream of the end of Bad Bunny's residency at El Choli in Puerto Rico. It was the end of his No Me Quiero Ir de Aquà residency, so it was a big to-do. For those of us who were able to log in to the broadcast, great. If you missed it, I'm so sorry. But good news is, there's, like, little clips and everything that keep circulating. And I'm so in love with the number of memes and reactions and posts that people have been doing ever since then. It just felt like a moment for the community to come together and enjoy something, kind of celebrate Latino joy, that even if we aren't Puerto Rico, we can all still take joy in each other's arts, send support and solidarity for a lot of the things that Bad Bunny was singing about and drawing awareness to. It really felt like a moment that we all kind of tuned in and watched the same show at the same time, which we don't usually get to experience that much. So I was glad for it. And I'm glad that the memes and the videos are living on and having a second life, even though the livestream that has expired.
HARRIS: So that was Bad Bunny's final show for his residency, which was livestreaming on Amazon. And we should note that Amazon supports NPR and pays to distribute some of our content. Thank you so much, Monica. That was great. Glen, what is making you happy this week?
WELDON: Plainclothes is a film that's in theaters now. It stars Russell Tovey and Tom Blyth. It's the debut feature from writer-director Carmen Emmi. And it's about a young undercover cop, played by Blyth, whose job is to entrap and arrest gay men cruising in public toilets. You will not be surprised to learn that the Blyth character is very deeply conflicted about this because he's still-- wait for it-- in the closet. And then hot daddy Russell Tovey shows up into the men's room, and complications ensue. This movie isn't reinventing the wheel, but it's a solid wheel that is not overwritten. It's really solid. And I should note that some reviewers haven't liked some of the film's stylistic flourishes. It switches to handheld video at certain, you know, really emotional moments. I kind of love that, frankly, especially when you consider the film's really about surveillance. It made sense to me. And I'm curious to see what Emmi does next, which is the best thing a first film can do. So that is Plainclothes. It's in theaters now.
HARRIS: Thank you so much. I've heard nothing but good things about it, so I am definitely going to add that to my very, very long to watch list.
CASTILLO: No, I want to catch up with that one. I missed it at Sundance.
HARRIS: Yes, so did I. Well, one movie that I did not miss at Sundance is actually my happy this week, and it is one of the best things I saw at the festival this year. That is Predators, which is directed and produced by David Osit. You may be familiar if you're of a certain age of the show, To Catch a Predator, which first aired as a news segment in 2004 on Dateline NBC and then continued for a few years after. And I don't really remember watching this myself. But once I watched this documentary, I was like, oh yeah, this was the format of the show, which was adults who could convincingly look like they were minors, would impersonate minors online, then lure would-be sex offenders to a house that was part of an undercover operation. And then the host, Chris Hansen, would show up, confront the men, and reveal the entire production crew hidden in the house. And then afterwards, they would usually be arrested by police waiting outside. This documentary is so fascinating because it focuses on the consequences and the effects on those who were involved, including, you know, the emotional toll it took on the decoys who were being used to lure these people, and also the highly publicized suicide that led to a lawsuit and then the end of the program eventually. This is a doc that kind of, like, asks, what has all of this wrought? Like, did this actually work to stem abuse? Or was this form of shame humiliation put on display for everyone's entertainment? So it's really complicated. It's really layered and really harrowing and devastating. And I highly recommend it. So that's Predators. It is in theaters, limited release currently. And then it's supposed to expand on October 3. It's tough stuff, but also really, really fascinating as well. That's what's making me happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended plus more recommendations, you should definitely sign up for our newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Monica Castillo, Glen Weldon, thanks so much for being here.
WELDON: Thank you.
CASTILLO: Thanks for having me.
HARRIS: This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, Carly Rubin, and Mike Katzif, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thanks so much for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris. And we'll see you all next week.
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