Too many lords, not enough stewards
Too many lords, not enough stewards
Posted Feb 1, 2018 10:11 UTC (Thu) by daniels (subscriber, #16193)In reply to: Too many lords, not enough stewards by msnitzer
Parent article: Too many lords, not enough stewards
As you say, sweeping generalisations aren't helpful. But even the code of conflict refers to people being 'abused' or 'threatened'. I have a hard time seeing how personal abuse and threats are part of 'keeping it all about the code', and everything being purely technical.
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Too many lords, not enough stewards
Posted Feb 1, 2018 13:32 UTC (Thu) by msnitzer (guest, #57232) [Link]
Abuse and threats are _not_ OK. But a person who isn't getting their way that falsely resorts to such accusations is the definition of dysfunction and even cancer. It is like a woman evoking "I feel threatened" when she has absolutely no reason to be. She knows it'll get people to back off even when she is what is wrong. Those instances must be called out and rejected. But they aren't, because the person went nuclear and nobody wants to touch it. And because that person already established themselves as erratic and misguided and largely beyond consoling or help.
Too many lords, not enough stewards
Posted Feb 1, 2018 15:28 UTC (Thu) by daniels (subscriber, #16193) [Link]
Of course. I don't know anyone who's argued for strong codes of conduct and enforcement, who thinks false claims are a good thing which should be encouraged. Any system which isn't prepared to handle false claims is counterproductive and broken.
Despite the hysteria though, there doesn't actually seem to be documented cases of abuses of reasonable strong systems. On the other hand, there are a huge number of cases where the lack of such a system has been exploited to abuse people.
But you can run DM how you like, and make sure all the snowflakes are run out.
Too many lords, not enough stewards
Posted Feb 1, 2018 16:36 UTC (Thu) by msnitzer (guest, #57232) [Link]
Using "snowflake" obviously triggers people. I could've used a different word. But snowflake really does serve a purpose. It is describing the people who generally do have problems. I'm in favor of enabling people to realize their goals and help as I can. To that end I'm forced to deal with conflicting opinions, requirements, and other more unsavory ratholes that come with that. It is the sad reality of being a maintainer. And it certainly does make the role feel like "work". If people could let the past be the past we'd be better off. Easier said than done. Most maintainers really are good and helpful. For those that aren't, we're forced to "suck it up" and "roll with the punches". Same goes for problematic developers that foster dysfunctional exchanges more than ideal.
Really not trying to be controversial. But flippant responses like "But you can run DM how you like, and make sure all the snowflakes are run out." are received loud and clear. I can be better. And so can you.
Too many lords, not enough stewards
Posted Feb 1, 2018 18:24 UTC (Thu) by excors (subscriber, #95769) [Link]
Maybe that's not what you intended at all, but I don't think I'm alone in perceiving that subtext. If you want to avoid misinterpretation, don't use words that have strong unwanted connotations in the communities you interact with.
Too many lords, not enough stewards
Posted Feb 1, 2018 18:59 UTC (Thu) by msnitzer (guest, #57232) [Link]
The question really is: can we harness the good to improve and innovate while also defeating the bad elements that are omnipresent? I think we do a pretty damn good job of it in the grand scheme of things. So when entire talks are dedicated to just how bad it is, that comes off as quite disingenuous. It isn't an accurate characterization of the broader community and the people who make it all work. And to speak so emphatically as if it is, that is a problem.
Too many lords, not enough stewards
Posted Feb 2, 2018 0:22 UTC (Fri) by nivedita76 (guest, #121790) [Link]
Too many lords, not enough stewards
Posted Feb 8, 2018 11:05 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]
I regularly use the term "black". The people I am talking about are not American, and would find the term "African" offensive.
Always remember the English and Americans are two peoples divided by a common language - and don't you dare translate the word "bum-bag" in my presence - the American equivalent is both offensive and sexist ... :-)
(It took me quite a while to realise what you saw as offensive ...)
Cheers,
Wol
Too many lords, not enough stewards
Posted Feb 2, 2018 12:50 UTC (Fri) by [email protected] (subscriber, #39252) [Link]
I also have to say that I feel personally offended by some statements made in the talk, even though I may agree with some points made in it too. Yes, I can get over this, but that doesn't particularly improve the taste in my mouth, so to speak.
Moreover, kernel code maintainers *are* contributors too. The majority of them actually contribute code changes, but even if they don't do that, maintaining a piece of kernel code is a significant contribution pretty much by itself, so positioning them against "contributors" as it was done in the talk doesn't appear to be fair enough.